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+--- Thread: new rank system [reproposal] (/showthread.php?tid=261)
new rank system [reproposal] - fireb4llz - 03-18-2012
We have discussed this a few times although this topic never got a solid conclusion. The idea was to simplify the the player rank system. It seems pointless to have so many ranks and can be a bit of a hassle at times. We could slim it down to something like this.
[~Rank(description)]
~Guest(has logged in to the server)
~Builder(has built one structure)
~Honored(is deemed trustworthy with annoying commands and has shown noticeable helpfulness in the servers community)
~Architect(has built amazing structures with stunning quality and detail)
The requirements for honored would be the requirements of h4 and t6 put together and the requirements for architect would simply be the same as t8. I'm thinking Builders should be able to apply for Honored 2 months after their promotion and once Honored, would be able to apply for OPit. Also, I think Honored and Architect promotions should be taken a little more seriously and should be discussed on the forums.
Honored promotions should have a topic for each promotion and would have OPs discuss why or why not this player should be promoted and be eligible for OPit.
Architect Promotions again should have a topic per promotion. I think Architect promotions should be handled the same way my t8 promotion was for some odd reason handled. Players would post warps and a few pics of their best creations and 10 OPs would have to agree on the promotion. This is a great achievement and shouldn't be handed out very often.
Hopefully we can all finally decide something this time rather than discuss it for a week than completely forget about it.
RE: new rank system [reproposal] - Indrae - 03-18-2012
As I have proposed something similar to this in the past, I am eager to support it. The rank system we have now is bulky, and to be honest, doesn't accomplish a whole lot. They also distract from what, in my opinion, should be the focus of our server: the development of a strong server community. People are too focused on getting promoted to ranks that have no true discernible differences. The proposed ranks are practical, and adding additional ones only serve to clutter the system.
How are these ranks practical? Let's do an analysis.
Guest: The rank that all new players start in. Permissions are limited to protect against those who wish to cause havoc. This rank also helps OPs identify which players may need some help getting started out.
Builder: The description fits the name. After having shown the person is willing to create a build and devote some time to the server, they can be entrusted with some more basic commands.
Honored: This rank is a way to recognize people who have served the server in various capacities. It would be earned by providing help to people who need it on a regular basis.
Architect: Like Honored, this also serves as a way to recognize people who have contributed a great deal to the server, but in this case, through consistently great builds.
What more do we need beyond that? Do we really need to organize people based on their skill at building as perceived by the OPs? I think the answer is no. This system relieves the current pressure on OPs who have to work under the burdens of the review system, and in terms of our server philosophy, is a better fit.
RE: new rank system [reproposal] - Justin Case Kazoo - 03-18-2012
Yes, and by taking promotions more seriously might be nice. I'm tired of seeing people who I don't trust get t6 or whatever. And a longer wait, like you suggested, fire, would be good as well.
RE: new rank system [reproposal] - 9bjames - 03-18-2012
Hmm, I have to say, this version of ranks seems probably the most condensed and adequate so far.
The only concern I have is grouping trusted in with honoured etc... Players are still going to want to try to do rank games, so would still probably be eager to pester, or request a promotion... Making it so they are required to be considered as a "trusted" member of the community just to progress to a rank with higher building recognition isn't the best idea in my opinion... I mean there are still going to be really good builders, whether some people trust them completely or not...
So, how about this: either we bring back the whole, slightly redundant debate about the trusted prefix... or, swap the order of architect and honoured. To be perfectly honest, I see more sense in this; first the player would try to attain their own individual building style, since really the whole game ethos is based upon building... and then they can focus if they so wish on contributing to the community, allowing them to be considered for OP etc with honoured. The architect rank could still have the long wait, either 2 months or even more... but instead of needing to be considered trusted as well, they just have to have proven their building skill, and for a group of players/ OPs to agree.
On the other hand, it could be done that a player doesn't exactly need to get architect before being promoted to honoured... since of course, not all players who would be considered for OP have to be great builders... Not only that, the way it's suggested here, honoured kinda works as a buffer rank... somewhere between an average builder, and someone who is great at it... so still gives some form of recognition...
I don't know, it may be that a trusted prefix would work better than what I've suggested afterall... I just don't think it's a good idea mixing ranks for building with something that requires trust from OPs... both types of ranks should still require a long wait period, but knowing the mixed opionions of OPs, as well as how some OPs won't see players enough to gain a feeling of trust... maybe the wait period would help that.
Tl;dr version, I believe that "being trusted/ suitable for OP" shouldn't be a requirement for a rank which shows "high building skills", and the same with the other way around.
Also, Justin, who exactly are you talking about with people getting t6 who you don't trust? As far as I see, there aren't many players who have trusted that don't deserve it right now... apart for maybe a select few. All I am going to say on this is just because you don't agree with another OP's judgement on a certain player, it doesn't mean the decision for the rank was rushed, or taken less seriously as you have put. =/
I'm actually raising this now since this is also an important part to the post... Obviously OPs should take this whole trusted thing seriously right now as it is, since technically players getting it SHOULD be players who we would be happy with being OPs, but also with a shortened rank system, this would have to be even more strict... Longer wait periods are bound to lead to players getting impatient, and not only that, OPs may end up feeling more sympathy because of it. This will also need to be monitorred more carefully since we won't have a set of tiered ranks...
Phew.. okay... that was a lot of writing... for the people who managed to get all the way through that, here's something stupid for ya to watch, lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oL53h8nlfg
RE: new rank system [reproposal] - Indrae - 03-18-2012
Here's an idea, make architect the prefix. That way it will basically be an honor that is outside of the ranking system bestowed on a select few who genuinely deserve it. Architect shouldn't be something every player should expect to get, and we shouldn't allow it to be that way. As far as the statement that player's will continue to play rank games is concerned, that's not our problem. If they believe that pestering OPs for promotions is the way to go about getting them, then let them. That doesn't mean we have to give them a promotion, and we sure as hell shouldn't base our entire rank system around these people. If people can't respect whatever system we decide to use for ranking, then thy don't deserve a promotion, plain and simple. I don't believe in separate ranks for Honored and Trusted, because quite frankly, we don't need them. If we have a long wait time in between Builder and Honored, people have more time to prove themselves worthy of Honored. Also, no player should ever expect an inevitable promotion to anything other than Builder. Highe ranks should be for those who genuinely deserve them. It isn't our responsibility to appease a type of player we don't want. Our rank system should instead work to weed those people out, so we are left with those we do want.
RE: new rank system [reproposal] - 9bjames - 03-18-2012
I do agree partially with what you're saying Ind, the whole point of minecraft is mining and building. Rank games are an extra, but have come across to OPs and some other players as more as a pain. What I was saying was merely to prevent a feeling of loss and upset for players who do enjoy a rank system of sorts, although I don't exactly want to promote it (the idea of rank games that is).
As for the idea of making architect a prefix... I like it. A lot.
Solves all the problems pretty simply.
Technically, I suppose any other "ranks" could probably be transferred over into "medals" over here on the forums (and not discussed so much ingame...) if people really have any complaints about it, though it shouldn't be something pestered over... at all. Heck, if it goes well enough with the transition, and people don't mind so much with just builder, leave it out completely. I'd personally prefer not having to manage it...
Edit- by transferring ranks to medals, I just mean set medals as a few select challenges which could be similar to some of the ranks... not make every rank into a medal... that'd just have the same problems. Pointless.
On second thoughts don't even discuss medals, that's an afterthought, see how people react to the rank changes if they get done. =P
RE: new rank system [reproposal] - Justin Case Kazoo - 03-18-2012
Well, yeah I guess there are only a few people. =P
But for example, once, someone asked me for h4, and they told me they had helped just about 2 people. So I tell them to help some more, they go to another op online, and ask them for the promotion. And whaddya know? Honored4. ._. Meh; I love this idea though.
RE: new rank system [reproposal] - 9bjames - 03-18-2012
You have a good point with the H4 story justin... will be a tonne more important with making sure they have helped if we change to this new rank scheme though...
Maybe it could be monitorred on the forum under the whole promotion thread idea?
There'd be a lot less need to keep track of promotions (except for if we want to make it definitely a 2 month minimum for the honoured thing...), we could even have it so players could try to apply for it there.
Would also be a start for getting them forum literate for if they do end up wanting OP etc. =P
RE: new rank system [reproposal] - fireb4llz - 03-18-2012
I like the Architect prefix idea. It suits the original purpose i had for that rank without the issues previously mentioned. The reason why I said that promotions should be taken more seriously because i feel that t6 promotions are practically just given away at times. Actually, I've seen a player(who will remain nameless) horribly abuse commands very similar that our OPs have on another server and was then promoted to T6 before I could state my concerns. I do feel like t8 should be taken more seriously aswell. Also, I dont think Honored and Trusted should be seperate ranks. The honored rank in the proposed system is a rank that grants eligibility for OPit. An OP should be helpful and available as well as trustworthy. We don't need two ranks to show that. So with the proposed ideas, this is what we have so far:
Ranks
~Guest(has logged in to the server)
~Builder(has built one structure)
~Honored(is deemed trustworthy with annoying commands and has shown noticeable helpfulness in the servers community)
Prefix
~Architect(has built amazing structures with stunning quality and detail)(would be displayed as an "A" next to ones username)
Again i really like the Architect prefix idea. It displays the achievement without interferring with the other ranks. You don't need Honored to earn the "A" and you don't need the "A" to achieve Honored. Also I do think there should be a long wait between builder and honored ranks. We probably should keep track of that on the promo thread. We only need to do this once per person so it should be a bit less of a hassle than the current system and it should take less room since there won't be any repeats. I notice a lot of OPs don't look for any previous promotion on the thread when editting the promo thread. Good thing is if this does end up finally getting applied to the server than no one would need to worry about that anyway. Also I don't think there needs to be a wait to achieve the "A" prefix. If a really talented player joins the server, Why make him wait? The Architect prefix should be available to anyone Builder+ if they deserve it.
RE: new rank system [reproposal] - alowe2 - 03-18-2012