07-14-2014, 07:28 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2014, 08:36 PM by pigpenguin.)
I posted this in the staff section earlier, but figured the whole community should get a look at it. Additionally, there are some tech problems that I describe below, so hopefully one of you computer literate people will be able to come up with a solution!
Hopefully the forums mods don't have a problem with this repost. I realize it's a little lengthy, but I feel like it was necessary to spell out all the implications and make a point. Thanks!
Changes
-Survival world gets a separate economy with all accounts starting at $0. You'll keep your current money in other worlds.
-Adminshop is created in SW spawn buying AND selling gold for $100 a piece
-Adminshop is created in SW spawn selling diamonds for ~$400 a piece
So right off the bat, we have an issue. The admins currently are unable to split the economies with the existing plugin. Is it possible to simply disable BOSEconomy in survival world then add another econ plugin for just SW? Do you guys know of any ways to have separate balances with this plugin or another? Indrae mentioned that the economy plugin is eventually going to have to be updated, so it looks like in the future, we'll have to switch anyway.
The first thing I'll address is why have a separate SW economy in the first place?
As I read back on past threads, it seems like SW was originally supposed to have a separate economy, or simply no economy at all. It looks like this was forgotten about when SW was released or perhaps the admins couldn't switch off the economy in SW.
In contrast to SW's predecessor, AW, SW has separate inventories, meaning everyone started from scratch. In starting out in this new "world", it would make sense that since everyone started equally, everyone starts out equally economically as well.
Additionally, I think most people would enjoy keeping SW totally bubbled off from the other worlds, including the money aspect. SW is its own civilization of sorts and I really think it'd be best for everything to start out from zero.
So what would these changes do?
As the the server shop did in MW, these changes would give money value in SW.
Assuming separate economies, ask yourself, what can I do with all my money? How can I make money? This plan answers both questions. With the server selling diamonds, money can be used toward something useful. Why diamonds? I think they're the best and only thing that the server could sell to provide an incentive to make money. By being able to sell gold to the server, all players have a chance to make money. We won't have to rely on sell prices from player shops(which are rare) or the automatic income.
Also as the server shop (sort of) did in MW, these changes will define the value of the dollar.
Ask someone now what the price of something is. Answers will vary by factors of ten. By having gold and diamonds at set values, people will (hopefully) realize the relative worth of all the other items.
Wait wait WAIT, I don't want to lose all my money!
Keep in mind that you'll still have all your money in MW. Also keep in mind that that's probably where you make and spend most of it. Remember, you probably don't have a place to spend or make cash in SW, so the only way from here is up. Also, if you are someone that has been playing SW for a while, chances are you have more gold right now than someone who hasn't. As soon as this kicks in, you'll be able to cash in, propelling you to your appropriate wealth. If you've been playing a ton of SW and don't have much gold (like me), remember the points I made above.
Whoa, $400 for a diamond?! The server shop charges $200, and most player shops are cheaper!
Keep in mind that the numbers are all relative. Notice that the diamond/gold price ratio in this plan is 4:1, as in the server shop. The price of a diamond could be $1 or $10,000, so long as the ratio between item prices are the same, nothing changes. So prices in SW SHOULD go "up", but you're not actually spending more.
This brings me to my next point. Why $100 for a gold ingot?
Currently, there is a small gap between price points for different items. Meaning if item X is %50 more valuable than item Y, you'll see item X costs 15 dollars while item Y is 10 dollars for a difference of 5 dollars. Theoretically, in this system, item X will cost 30 dollars and item Y will cost 20 dollars for a difference of 10 dollars. Having it so will help everyone see the different price levels for items more clearly, giving them a better idea of how much they're spending and making.
Here's a diagram to illustrate my point:
Will this make player shops obsolete?
No, in fact it will encourage people to make more shops in an effort to make more money (items sold=money=diamonds). Remember the only thing being sold is diamonds, so player shops will have to sell everything else. Player shops will also probably sell diamonds, for a lower price than the server (hopefully not too low). I think most shops will also include a sell chest for gold at $100 for convenience (almost like an ATM).
In order to increase player awareness, I think its important to have a guidebook that every player spawns with (9bjames suggested this a while ago). I'd be willing to write it, including some other general things about SW.
Again, even if everyone was for this plan (I'm expecting some push-back), our biggest issue is actual implementation. I request that some of the more tech-savvy players look into a way to have separate economies (strav, blue?). I'll try my best to do the same as well. Once the economy is split, all that needs to be done is the creation of two chest shops (and maybe a nice "Bank Vault" area).
With these changes, the atmosphere will definitely change a bit in SW. I think it'll make the players interact more be it through shops or trading. Since it's fair to say that everyone loves and needs diamonds, I think the economy will finally become a big part of gameplay, while I'm sure the building aspect won't diminish. This, I think, is a great direction for Survival World.
Please share your thoughts and concerns.
This plugin seems to support multiple economies: http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/hyperconomy/
This one seems to allow the existing economy plugin to stay, while simply allowing multi-world economies: http://www.curse.com/bukkit-plugins/mine...orld-money
Anyone know if these can be solutions??
Here is a reply from bot then me:
bot: a concern I have with having another servershop that buys things if it prevents people from placing a lower price on gold and diamonds to compete they handicap themselves if they put gold at 95$ and ss is buing it for 100
this makes it imposable for shops to compete with the server.
pigpenguin: There would be no point in a player selling gold for $95 when they can go to the bank and cash it in for $100. Are you concerned with people being able to buy gold? That seems like a reasonable concern. Unless anyone can think of any downsides, I'll revise the plan to have the server buy AND sell gold for $100. I don't think that should affect anything... and it actually makes more sense when I think about it.
The bank shouldn't make it hard to sell diamonds. Players should have diamonds priced between $330-399 or so. This makes the player shop more attractive to players than the bank, but in the case where there are no player shops selling diamonds, people can still buy them.
So in all, only the sale of gold would be strictly set at $100, but that's pretty much the point, to have a gold-based currency. Think of gold as a hundred dollar bill. You wouldn't sell a hundred dollar bill for more (well I would if I could) or less than one hundred dollars, so we're doing the same here with gold.
Edit: I kind of like the idea of being able to buy your account's worth in gold, so all your money is in physical form. It's certainly more dangerous, but imagine rooms and dungeons lined with gold... gold that's worth something. I think we can get creative here.
Hopefully the forums mods don't have a problem with this repost. I realize it's a little lengthy, but I feel like it was necessary to spell out all the implications and make a point. Thanks!
Changes
-Survival world gets a separate economy with all accounts starting at $0. You'll keep your current money in other worlds.
-Adminshop is created in SW spawn buying AND selling gold for $100 a piece
-Adminshop is created in SW spawn selling diamonds for ~$400 a piece
So right off the bat, we have an issue. The admins currently are unable to split the economies with the existing plugin. Is it possible to simply disable BOSEconomy in survival world then add another econ plugin for just SW? Do you guys know of any ways to have separate balances with this plugin or another? Indrae mentioned that the economy plugin is eventually going to have to be updated, so it looks like in the future, we'll have to switch anyway.
The first thing I'll address is why have a separate SW economy in the first place?
As I read back on past threads, it seems like SW was originally supposed to have a separate economy, or simply no economy at all. It looks like this was forgotten about when SW was released or perhaps the admins couldn't switch off the economy in SW.
In contrast to SW's predecessor, AW, SW has separate inventories, meaning everyone started from scratch. In starting out in this new "world", it would make sense that since everyone started equally, everyone starts out equally economically as well.
Additionally, I think most people would enjoy keeping SW totally bubbled off from the other worlds, including the money aspect. SW is its own civilization of sorts and I really think it'd be best for everything to start out from zero.
So what would these changes do?
As the the server shop did in MW, these changes would give money value in SW.
Assuming separate economies, ask yourself, what can I do with all my money? How can I make money? This plan answers both questions. With the server selling diamonds, money can be used toward something useful. Why diamonds? I think they're the best and only thing that the server could sell to provide an incentive to make money. By being able to sell gold to the server, all players have a chance to make money. We won't have to rely on sell prices from player shops(which are rare) or the automatic income.
Also as the server shop (sort of) did in MW, these changes will define the value of the dollar.
Ask someone now what the price of something is. Answers will vary by factors of ten. By having gold and diamonds at set values, people will (hopefully) realize the relative worth of all the other items.
Wait wait WAIT, I don't want to lose all my money!
Keep in mind that you'll still have all your money in MW. Also keep in mind that that's probably where you make and spend most of it. Remember, you probably don't have a place to spend or make cash in SW, so the only way from here is up. Also, if you are someone that has been playing SW for a while, chances are you have more gold right now than someone who hasn't. As soon as this kicks in, you'll be able to cash in, propelling you to your appropriate wealth. If you've been playing a ton of SW and don't have much gold (like me), remember the points I made above.
Whoa, $400 for a diamond?! The server shop charges $200, and most player shops are cheaper!
Keep in mind that the numbers are all relative. Notice that the diamond/gold price ratio in this plan is 4:1, as in the server shop. The price of a diamond could be $1 or $10,000, so long as the ratio between item prices are the same, nothing changes. So prices in SW SHOULD go "up", but you're not actually spending more.
This brings me to my next point. Why $100 for a gold ingot?
Currently, there is a small gap between price points for different items. Meaning if item X is %50 more valuable than item Y, you'll see item X costs 15 dollars while item Y is 10 dollars for a difference of 5 dollars. Theoretically, in this system, item X will cost 30 dollars and item Y will cost 20 dollars for a difference of 10 dollars. Having it so will help everyone see the different price levels for items more clearly, giving them a better idea of how much they're spending and making.
Here's a diagram to illustrate my point:
Will this make player shops obsolete?
No, in fact it will encourage people to make more shops in an effort to make more money (items sold=money=diamonds). Remember the only thing being sold is diamonds, so player shops will have to sell everything else. Player shops will also probably sell diamonds, for a lower price than the server (hopefully not too low). I think most shops will also include a sell chest for gold at $100 for convenience (almost like an ATM).
In order to increase player awareness, I think its important to have a guidebook that every player spawns with (9bjames suggested this a while ago). I'd be willing to write it, including some other general things about SW.
Again, even if everyone was for this plan (I'm expecting some push-back), our biggest issue is actual implementation. I request that some of the more tech-savvy players look into a way to have separate economies (strav, blue?). I'll try my best to do the same as well. Once the economy is split, all that needs to be done is the creation of two chest shops (and maybe a nice "Bank Vault" area).
With these changes, the atmosphere will definitely change a bit in SW. I think it'll make the players interact more be it through shops or trading. Since it's fair to say that everyone loves and needs diamonds, I think the economy will finally become a big part of gameplay, while I'm sure the building aspect won't diminish. This, I think, is a great direction for Survival World.
Please share your thoughts and concerns.
This plugin seems to support multiple economies: http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/hyperconomy/
This one seems to allow the existing economy plugin to stay, while simply allowing multi-world economies: http://www.curse.com/bukkit-plugins/mine...orld-money
Anyone know if these can be solutions??
Here is a reply from bot then me:
bot: a concern I have with having another servershop that buys things if it prevents people from placing a lower price on gold and diamonds to compete they handicap themselves if they put gold at 95$ and ss is buing it for 100
this makes it imposable for shops to compete with the server.
pigpenguin: There would be no point in a player selling gold for $95 when they can go to the bank and cash it in for $100. Are you concerned with people being able to buy gold? That seems like a reasonable concern. Unless anyone can think of any downsides, I'll revise the plan to have the server buy AND sell gold for $100. I don't think that should affect anything... and it actually makes more sense when I think about it.
The bank shouldn't make it hard to sell diamonds. Players should have diamonds priced between $330-399 or so. This makes the player shop more attractive to players than the bank, but in the case where there are no player shops selling diamonds, people can still buy them.
So in all, only the sale of gold would be strictly set at $100, but that's pretty much the point, to have a gold-based currency. Think of gold as a hundred dollar bill. You wouldn't sell a hundred dollar bill for more (well I would if I could) or less than one hundred dollars, so we're doing the same here with gold.
Edit: I kind of like the idea of being able to buy your account's worth in gold, so all your money is in physical form. It's certainly more dangerous, but imagine rooms and dungeons lined with gold... gold that's worth something. I think we can get creative here.
