05-05-2012, 07:55 PM
I was typing up another essay to respond to Ind when I realized my opinion was said... but simply misunderstood (maybe my phrasing). So I rewrote it after reading over all of the posts again. Just one quick thing:
Main Points:
I am not against having creative world itself. I am simply concerned with fishy's feelings of us not bringing him into this (us changing the dynamic of his server without him, its like us taking away every plugin and making the server vanilla while he's away), concerned with whether people will become bored with our server if we make creative mode public, and with how we'll balance the architect rank x.x I am not for or against adding the world itself as long as the ranks are ironed out. The rest are small concerns that I think we should consider.
Architect rank related:
Our disagreements all stim back to whether creative mode makes building easier or not. Here's my reasoning on the issue:
flat land - fishy often flattens land for people but it'd be on a much wider scale then, this speeds the process for starting up builds for a majority of the server because they don't like Flatland world for some reason. I'm not against this aspect however.
creative mode punch - basically superpick except more accessible, makes for quicker clean up of mistakes which speeds building up
unlimited resources - this makes resources that fishy has previously withheld in kits available as well, also you have so many of everything you won't need to be as careful with where you place things which adds to the number of mistakes but also speeds building up
Logical Fallacies since you asked for them:
Just keep in mind EVERYONE uses logical fallacies sometimes and when I said I was tired of arguing with Ind, I meant tired of arguing... not tired because he constantly uses flawed logic (just twice noticeably). I viewed them as something not worth arguing about and decided to delete my whole argument refuting them. My mistake was keeping the mention of them... Ind saw it and got insulted rather than me having at least tried to explain what I meant. Also, I just noticed yours to no fault of your own. My english teacher just drilled them in my head a week ago and got me good and sick of them from frustrating examples on controversial topics ...then I saw Ind using one and lashed out x.x sorry for that. As for the actual examples themselves, there are only two:
*points up* that quote I put in this post is stacking an argument to your favor so that the opposition can't make any of their points. Fallacy: avoiding the argument
The comparison that the need from those craving creative mode is equivalent to those wanting a survival aspect of minecraft in pvp/mobs or a higher height limit for flatland builds. Creative mode caters to those who are not motivated to collect resources or are unable to collect the amount of resources they want (which fishy set up specifically ..notice no /kit diamond). Fallacy: faulty analogy
We apparently disagree about build quality judgement... that's not a fallacy, I won't insult you by claiming that. Reading over your arguments in previous posts, I do see alot of good points in there that I skimmed over cause I was in the zone of arguing x.x They don't change my mind about the architect thing... but I am warmer to the idea of creative world. (which is to say, not cold to it anymore)
Conclusion:
We should get fishy involved in this discussion since he deserves the chance to review his options. Lets work out differences in architect rank. My concerns with adding creative can't really be proven valid one way or the other, we can choose and hope either way as long as we're all aware of them. Then when all that is done lets add creative world if nothing gets brought up to disturb it again.
(05-04-2012, 07:30 AM)Indrae Wrote: That isn't the question or topic of discussion here. This is a question of the merits of having a world with creative enabled. Whether we judge the builds more harshly or not is not important to this discussion.I would like to point out that how creative world builds are judged for architect IS related to a topic calling for a world with creative mode on. This should be discussed as well, but is not the primary focus and I have lumped my feelings about judging builds in with my feelings about creative mode being on the server itself. For that I apologize and will clear up now.
Main Points:
I am not against having creative world itself. I am simply concerned with fishy's feelings of us not bringing him into this (us changing the dynamic of his server without him, its like us taking away every plugin and making the server vanilla while he's away), concerned with whether people will become bored with our server if we make creative mode public, and with how we'll balance the architect rank x.x I am not for or against adding the world itself as long as the ranks are ironed out. The rest are small concerns that I think we should consider.
Architect rank related:
Our disagreements all stim back to whether creative mode makes building easier or not. Here's my reasoning on the issue:
flat land - fishy often flattens land for people but it'd be on a much wider scale then, this speeds the process for starting up builds for a majority of the server because they don't like Flatland world for some reason. I'm not against this aspect however.
creative mode punch - basically superpick except more accessible, makes for quicker clean up of mistakes which speeds building up
unlimited resources - this makes resources that fishy has previously withheld in kits available as well, also you have so many of everything you won't need to be as careful with where you place things which adds to the number of mistakes but also speeds building up
Logical Fallacies since you asked for them:
Just keep in mind EVERYONE uses logical fallacies sometimes and when I said I was tired of arguing with Ind, I meant tired of arguing... not tired because he constantly uses flawed logic (just twice noticeably). I viewed them as something not worth arguing about and decided to delete my whole argument refuting them. My mistake was keeping the mention of them... Ind saw it and got insulted rather than me having at least tried to explain what I meant. Also, I just noticed yours to no fault of your own. My english teacher just drilled them in my head a week ago and got me good and sick of them from frustrating examples on controversial topics ...then I saw Ind using one and lashed out x.x sorry for that. As for the actual examples themselves, there are only two:
*points up* that quote I put in this post is stacking an argument to your favor so that the opposition can't make any of their points. Fallacy: avoiding the argument
The comparison that the need from those craving creative mode is equivalent to those wanting a survival aspect of minecraft in pvp/mobs or a higher height limit for flatland builds. Creative mode caters to those who are not motivated to collect resources or are unable to collect the amount of resources they want (which fishy set up specifically ..notice no /kit diamond). Fallacy: faulty analogy
We apparently disagree about build quality judgement... that's not a fallacy, I won't insult you by claiming that. Reading over your arguments in previous posts, I do see alot of good points in there that I skimmed over cause I was in the zone of arguing x.x They don't change my mind about the architect thing... but I am warmer to the idea of creative world. (which is to say, not cold to it anymore)
Conclusion:
We should get fishy involved in this discussion since he deserves the chance to review his options. Lets work out differences in architect rank. My concerns with adding creative can't really be proven valid one way or the other, we can choose and hope either way as long as we're all aware of them. Then when all that is done lets add creative world if nothing gets brought up to disturb it again.
I like ducks
., ／l、
ﾞ（ﾟ､ ｡` ７
. l、ﾞ ~ヽ
. じしf_,)ノ
Those who fight for justice must walk a narrow path, for those who complain about the injustice of the world usually end up being the ones committing those injustices later on.
., ／l、
ﾞ（ﾟ､ ｡` ７
. l、ﾞ ~ヽ
. じしf_,)ノ
Those who fight for justice must walk a narrow path, for those who complain about the injustice of the world usually end up being the ones committing those injustices later on.