08-12-2012, 04:26 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-12-2012, 04:28 PM by shppthwhtfx.)
If you get tired of this long-winded counter-argument, please skip to the end. There is a poll proposal there :3 I broke the argument into sections to avoid confusion beyond what is already present.
This Long-Winded Counter-Argument Part 1:
Miners have and can always sell to shops (plus it's not that hard to make a temp shop), many shop owners advertise how they'll buy from people bulk. Pigpen has even started setting up shared areas for people to co-own a corner of his shop.
In a gold standard economy, all that will change for miners is they won't need to sell their gold before they buy something else. They will still need to sell their other goods they don't want in order to participate in the economy system (like they always have), while builders will have to stop what they're doing and mine a little to keep up with the inflation that will happen from giving miners (pure and shop owner hybrid alike) this extra edge.
Self Argument:
I understand you're leaving the "get money per 10 minutes" thing, but this change will decrease the value even further of that money they're getting
...probably not much, maybe I should stop caring.
Those who only buy are a large portion of consumers in our economy though. If we screw them over, who will buy all these useless things the people actually selling things in the economy don't want?
I'm sure those selling want similar things to those buying, the small bit who want different will get what they want.
But if they want the same things, those who sell will have the money to buy out the shops D:
Well that's what non-miners/sellers get for not participating in the economy.
...Ok that's true >.>
Sorry, arguing with myself. It happens.
This Long-Winded Counter-Argument Part 2:
Thank you for listing the advantages to gold standard, I would like to disagree with a few now. Correct/convince me if I'm wrong please.
Even with gold standard, the best shop owner has a monopoly over other shop owners.
Trade happens just as often as it will with gold standard, unless you count gold as bartering.
People can and always will gain money by gaining interest, owning a shop, or mining and selling/trading to someone. Gold will just be easier to "sell/trade" in gold standard.
Shop owners will constantly fight each other over prices and lower them, despite demand even with gold standard (except for gold), thinking changing the currency to gold will make prices stay any more stable than they have been (which seem to be pretty stable except for eccentric or price ignorant people) makes no sense to me.
under gold standard:
Trade becomes valuable only with gold
Gold has more usage, which is nice if you have a ton of gold I guess >.> making more millionaires and those who don't like mining even poorer.
"The gap between the wealthy and the poor would be fixed" ... I'm guessing you're arguing anyone who can mine can make money. Ok, I can see this being true to an extent. This will bring miners, shop owners and the millionaires closer ...eventually.
"Money could be earned without a shop or without sitting around." True!
"There would be a set price for things, inflation would only occur with the amount of gold people have." Every reason for inflation happening now would still happen with gold standard, in addition to the sharp spikes when gold planet people join in and hackers join right before they're banned. You're not decreasing reasons for inflation, sorry. Shop owners will always try to under-price other shop owners until the point it doesn't make a profit... making their shops communistic and boring (I don't know where they think making imaginary money is fun, but I'm assuming the ability to set your own price is one of them). Supply/demand is the other reason for inflation, and that will always stay around. Have any that disappear?
"A server shop could still be implemented with a gold standard economy." This is to inform/correct those who you confused by the poll. Understood.
If you're not completely angry at me for either being ignorant or breaking your argument, consider the following. It's a good idea and has nothing to do with disagreeing or agreeing with anyone.
.
.
.
Change the Poll:
@everyone I'm pretty sure most of us misunderstood or were confused at the time we voted. I don't think we should use this poll as proof of what the server wants =/
The poll should have the following six options and everyone gets three votes, one for each of the categories:
For/against server shop (for meaning have an expensive server run shop for when supplies in player shops are low or people are too lazy to browse, against meaning no server run shop etc.)
For/against gold standard (for meaning gold standard, against meaning current currency)
For/against the command shop system (for meaning we use the command to sell/buy from each others' shops or the server shop if we vote yes on it, against meaning we use physical shops [I think aeon said if we have a server shop we need the commands for it, so we'll have the command also for just that shop. I don't know if I'm remembering correctly though, aeon? x.x ])
@justin none of the options will close the gap immediately, they are all long term plans. If you don't do anything stupid, I'm sure you'll command the lead for a few months at least (assuming you also got a few double chest fulls of ore from the gold planets).
This Long-Winded Counter-Argument Part 1:
Miners have and can always sell to shops (plus it's not that hard to make a temp shop), many shop owners advertise how they'll buy from people bulk. Pigpen has even started setting up shared areas for people to co-own a corner of his shop.
In a gold standard economy, all that will change for miners is they won't need to sell their gold before they buy something else. They will still need to sell their other goods they don't want in order to participate in the economy system (like they always have), while builders will have to stop what they're doing and mine a little to keep up with the inflation that will happen from giving miners (pure and shop owner hybrid alike) this extra edge.
Self Argument:
I understand you're leaving the "get money per 10 minutes" thing, but this change will decrease the value even further of that money they're getting
...probably not much, maybe I should stop caring.
Those who only buy are a large portion of consumers in our economy though. If we screw them over, who will buy all these useless things the people actually selling things in the economy don't want?
I'm sure those selling want similar things to those buying, the small bit who want different will get what they want.
But if they want the same things, those who sell will have the money to buy out the shops D:
Well that's what non-miners/sellers get for not participating in the economy.
...Ok that's true >.>
Sorry, arguing with myself. It happens.
This Long-Winded Counter-Argument Part 2:
Thank you for listing the advantages to gold standard, I would like to disagree with a few now. Correct/convince me if I'm wrong please.
Even with gold standard, the best shop owner has a monopoly over other shop owners.
Trade happens just as often as it will with gold standard, unless you count gold as bartering.
People can and always will gain money by gaining interest, owning a shop, or mining and selling/trading to someone. Gold will just be easier to "sell/trade" in gold standard.
Shop owners will constantly fight each other over prices and lower them, despite demand even with gold standard (except for gold), thinking changing the currency to gold will make prices stay any more stable than they have been (which seem to be pretty stable except for eccentric or price ignorant people) makes no sense to me.
under gold standard:
Trade becomes valuable only with gold
Gold has more usage, which is nice if you have a ton of gold I guess >.> making more millionaires and those who don't like mining even poorer.
"The gap between the wealthy and the poor would be fixed" ... I'm guessing you're arguing anyone who can mine can make money. Ok, I can see this being true to an extent. This will bring miners, shop owners and the millionaires closer ...eventually.
"Money could be earned without a shop or without sitting around." True!
"There would be a set price for things, inflation would only occur with the amount of gold people have." Every reason for inflation happening now would still happen with gold standard, in addition to the sharp spikes when gold planet people join in and hackers join right before they're banned. You're not decreasing reasons for inflation, sorry. Shop owners will always try to under-price other shop owners until the point it doesn't make a profit... making their shops communistic and boring (I don't know where they think making imaginary money is fun, but I'm assuming the ability to set your own price is one of them). Supply/demand is the other reason for inflation, and that will always stay around. Have any that disappear?
"A server shop could still be implemented with a gold standard economy." This is to inform/correct those who you confused by the poll. Understood.
If you're not completely angry at me for either being ignorant or breaking your argument, consider the following. It's a good idea and has nothing to do with disagreeing or agreeing with anyone.
.
.
.
Change the Poll:
@everyone I'm pretty sure most of us misunderstood or were confused at the time we voted. I don't think we should use this poll as proof of what the server wants =/
The poll should have the following six options and everyone gets three votes, one for each of the categories:
For/against server shop (for meaning have an expensive server run shop for when supplies in player shops are low or people are too lazy to browse, against meaning no server run shop etc.)
For/against gold standard (for meaning gold standard, against meaning current currency)
For/against the command shop system (for meaning we use the command to sell/buy from each others' shops or the server shop if we vote yes on it, against meaning we use physical shops [I think aeon said if we have a server shop we need the commands for it, so we'll have the command also for just that shop. I don't know if I'm remembering correctly though, aeon? x.x ])
@justin none of the options will close the gap immediately, they are all long term plans. If you don't do anything stupid, I'm sure you'll command the lead for a few months at least (assuming you also got a few double chest fulls of ore from the gold planets).
I like ducks
., ／l、
ﾞ（ﾟ､ ｡` ７
. l、ﾞ ~ヽ
. じしf_,)ノ
Those who fight for justice must walk a narrow path, for those who complain about the injustice of the world usually end up being the ones committing those injustices later on.
., ／l、
ﾞ（ﾟ､ ｡` ７
. l、ﾞ ~ヽ
. じしf_,)ノ
Those who fight for justice must walk a narrow path, for those who complain about the injustice of the world usually end up being the ones committing those injustices later on.