new rank system [reproposal]

[Aeonex]

Personally, I actually feel the custom colour thing would be a pretty good idea. I was against the whole thing that Ash said with artist, miner etc, because it creates more complications.... but something like having multiple coloured member titles, where they would just choose one colour, and then that would be what they kept (maybe not for the rest of their days as member... possibility to change?), then I think it would be worth doing.

I just don't think we should have too many other ranks which are specialised, or which have requirements. What I was saying with the whole Alt worlds ranks was just to compensate for the possibility of the server being flooded with one colour rank, if we made these other worlds more interesting, or more available, then players who had other preferences could spend more time there etc, but I don't think that's happened much as of yet because of the accessibility of the worlds...

Not only is this so far away from what a regular user wants. It's borderline detached to reality of regular Minecraft servers.

The idea behind mine is to cater towards what the USER wants, the regular person. People (most) LOVE titles. They LOVE jobs, they want something to DO. Since we're getting rid of the old rank system of "build to get to the next rank". We NEED another system that actually has a purpose. Not a rank system that just has fancy titles and permissions.

Everyone, reality check. This system is GOING to fail if there is no conflict or entertainment aspects involved in it. Just like the current one. Just like the one before it. I am TRYING to propose job ranking system instead of builder ranking system because this system WON'T work. IT'S BORING!

There are 4 types of rank systems on servers (That I have seen):
1: Builder ranking
2: Role-Play Ranking
3: Jobs Ranking
4: Prestige Ranking (For PVP based servers)

Where does this new rank system fall? Builder, basically. But back to the old builder system we had. It's just a reversion back to the old way. We need to wake up and notice how much Minecraft has changed. It's not just about building anymore. It's about PVP, it's about Roleplay. It's a lot of things, Minecraft is what you make of it. (Yes, building is a primary aspect, but not the ENTIRE aspect) Last I checked, a LOT of users are leaving. HINT: It's not just because of the spawn.

[9bjames]

Well what do you propose then Ash, more ranks based around what players will be doing? Specialised ranks which will have to be judged in some way, so that they can be placed in a category of pvp-ers, miners, builders or artists? If it involves OP judgement for it, it's just complicating things again, which might as well be taking a step back. If it's just so they can have a title to display what their attributes are, without having any real requirements, what's the point? Players won't just want to have one job, they'll most likely have a mix which they change between. I agree players do enjoy titles, but with the system we're going for, we don't want it to be a case that they'd be doing what they are now; making us OPs judge them, and end up with them being at the rank they are just because they want it, rather than they deserve it (or because it describes them best). Not only that, I don't see how it would fit in with the proposed system we may be changing to.

Also, believe it or not Ash, players obviously do enjoy being able to customise the colour... something as simple as different colours for the same title may not "wow" players, but again, it's all down to customisability, which is what I feel is your whole point, except with titles as well, rather than colours. IF we could make a system where the player could change their "job" by themselves, I think that COULD be worth implementing, since it would be down to what the player wanted. But as I keep saying, how will this affect the other ranks? Will players then want a higher tier rank like architect for each subset? Will they be able to change between higher tier ranks, or back to their old "job" title? will ranks merge as with prefix ranks now?

If what I'm saying is so wrong by you Ash, then tell us what you propose, in full detail. Because from what I have seen, and assumed, I would not personally choose it over another rank set. As it is, I am trying to see this from a builder's point of view, I'm thinking back to when I first joined, and what I wanted and did. Personally, with the whole jobs thing, I would have wanted to change it, because I prefer getting involved with all aspects of a game, which is why I think, and said that offsets of ranks may not be a good idea. Players should be free to do as they wish, and not feel restricted, or any lesser at something else, just because their title says one thing (again, personal experience, from when I was in the RS ranks, since even when I was I did very little in the way of RS, and more in the way of building).

Last point, yes, this new system will probably be boring. It is simplistic, there is only one rank to strive for, asside for Honored, and that rank is very hard to get... Essentially, players will sit around most of the time, with little to do but build and talk. But in truth, one of the main aim of this rank overhaul was to get players to take a step back from ranks, and look at the bigger picture. This server was not made so players could just rank up. It was made so players could come together and build as they wanted. If we are getting rid of the ranks we have now, I just don't see why we should bring in something which is just as redundant. Rather than focussing on what ranks we could offer them, I think we should be thinking of what game aspects they can play with. Afterall, this is going to be the MAIN WORLD RANK SET, not the whole server's rank set. The main world is what players use most, but there are so many other worlds with different playing mechanics which go untouched. I think if we can get those more into play, we don't need to worry about the whole difference between miner, and artist etc. Heck, we could assign them to the different worlds for players to walk in and out of whenever they want. But right now, we are discussing the change between pointless builder ranks, and something shorter.

[Aeonex]

@james instead of reading your extremely lengthy posts. I will propose an extremely simple, very well thought out rank system which I had considered (with the portal ideas we will be bringing to the server) I don't mean to sound rude, instead of being against my ideas because of my negativity. Hear me out, I read about 10 of your lengthy posts here and considered them for quite some time. I also noticed that this topic is now 9 pages over with little progress actually being made....

Two Things this server has always (And will always follow)

1: Everyone is Welcome
2: Have fun!

How can we make the entire rank system and worlds based around these two concepts?

Easy, make the ranking systems AUTOMATIC (except creative) and split between worlds, with different ranking categories. 4 Worlds all together (I don't see why we need six?) Most ranks will be automatic, with little worry from the OPs, freeing up their time to help users at spawns and making the server fun, rather than being the police.

PVP/Survival World:

Heroes Plugin, everything is automatic (No OP needs to monitor/update ranks, only Admin Updater needs to update plugin and edit PVP ranks per user request/satisfaction of PVP system). People can have different "classes" which have different abilities, defined by permissions

More explained here: http://z15.invisionfree.com/CFMinecraft/...wtopic=309

Creative World:

The current ranking system you're proposing now, the 4 ranks being discussed. Creative will inevitably be a "builder" based world, because that's exactly what it is. People fighting for "the next best rank" is an inevitability. Denying this is fraught with futility.

Traditional World:

Job ranks. People can mine, landscape, farm, or do virtually any project for money. The money can then be re-invested into the (Currently broken Economy) Which would simultaneously fix the economy because people would find money valuable and trust the money.

Ranks for jobs: (We can define it however way we want, the plugin for this is automatic, like the Heroes plugin, except it's linked directly to IConomy. The user can change to whatever they want.)
EXAMPLES:
- Farmer
- Miner
- Builder
- Helper

Redstone Ranks:

Same as Creative ranks, except with Redstone prefixes. No need to change.

Hang the rules about "too many ranks" and "This is confusing". It's CONFUSING because we have a spawn with about 200 signs that every new player is required to read.

Instead, make 4 separate spawns with portals linking to them. Have a total of, at most, 40 signs which explain the server and the current world you're in. Have the spawns open ended and have an FAQ on the forums (Which users will join because they will want to learn). Thus solving the "users aren't visiting forums problem" as well.

[9bjames]

Dropping out of this discussion. I have given all of my input.
What I will say is I am all for an automatic system, though personally I am not sure about some of the ranks you have suggested.
It seems like going off on a completely different tangent, but then again that doesn't mean it won't be for the better.

Overall:
Agree with AW/ PVP ranks, ranks being automatic, possibly the redstone ranks.
Disagree slightly with creative world unless there is a set of ranks for players to use in a general, all purpose creative world, and Ind is in control of higher tier ranks with his city world building project. Not sure that redstone ranks should stay the same as with creative, think it should be more up to the main RS "teachers" there. Also unsure about main world ranks.

Issues - how will we carry accross the honored rank? We still need to show who is worth of OP easily in all worlds, not just a few.

[Aeonex]

Dropping out of this discussion. I have given all of my input.
What I will say is I am all for an automatic system, though personally I am not sure about some of the ranks you have suggested.
It seems like going off on a completely different tangent, but then again that doesn't mean it won't be for the better.

Overall:
Agree with AW/ PVP ranks, ranks being automatic, possibly the redstone ranks.
Disagree slightly with creative world unless there is a set of ranks for players to use in a general, all purpose creative world, and Ind is in control of higher tier ranks with his city world building project. Not sure that redstone ranks should stay the same as with creative, think it should be more up to the main RS "teachers" there. Also unsure about main world ranks.

Issues - how will we carry accross the honored rank? We still need to show who is worth of OP easily in all worlds, not just a few.

I suppose I am trying to make sense, both logically and effectively with the ranks. There are so many problems our ranking system causes on the server that many, many other servers I have joined aren't even concerned about. Iconomy, different worlds, spawn clutter... I have been OP on several servers, so I am not looking at it solely from a user perspective. I have been user on a lot of servers as well...

How can the ranking system be both fun and effective?

Regarding Honored/Trusted ranks. It would carry across the system if you manually promoted someone to Honored, regardless of the worlds. Heroes and Jobs rank work like this.

1: Job/Hero titles are always shown (except by special title)
2: Job/Hero titles are always shown (except by group)

For example: On a PVP role-play server I visited. OP titles were always shown, you could still choose different jobs/heroes, but your OP title was constantly visible. The same can be effectively applied to the Honored rank. It could go across the board as an over-all sign of recognition.

[boxmana]

I like aeons idea, but we should be careful not to get the ranking system too complicated. BTW I'm just curious, but is there anyway someone can sumup the basic ranks that we are discussing? Like just the names, so i have an overall idea how many we would have? I get aeons idea bout different types of ranks and such, but it would be helpful to get a summary of whats been discussed, agreed upon, and discarded

[shppthwhtfx]

@aeon I am not against playing with the ranks of alt worlds, but I am for the main world's ranks changing to what's below. Your roll play ideas would work nicely for the survival worlds =)

@box The last thing we all agreed upon before new ideas were introduced was this:
guest
member or builder (I think most liked member, but not sure)
honored
architect
honored-architect
vif
opit
op
superop
admin

[Aeonex]

Adding to Shpp's post. We will also have Redstone Ranks and City-World ranks. No one seemed to want to get rid of them.

RS RANKS:
RS Visitor
RS Visitor-OP
RS Student
RS Student-OP
RS Teacher
RS Teacher-OP

CITY WORKD RANKS:
CW Citizen
CW Citizen-OP
CW Architect
CW Architect-OP
CW Counsellor-OP
CW Mayor-OP
CW Police-OP

SURVIVAL:
Heroes plugin, people are able to choose "classes" or "jobs" which they role play with. All automatic (estimated to be 8-10 classes)

Approximately 33 ranks all together.

Compared to:
AW+PVP = 6 ranks
Traditional world = 13
City World = 7
RS World = 6
Total = 32 ranks

[blueapplepiedude]

can we put a certain rank for AW and pvp?
too many noobs getting killed in there.

[shppthwhtfx]

what do you suggest this rank be for blue? We have the overall AW and PVP ranks for anyone that enters. Did you want ranks that advertise how often people kill?
I think aeon is planning a sort of roll play ranking system for AW or something.